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I had the Biltmore Lift 6 months ago with Dr. Harley after finding him on RealSelf.com and seeing all the positive reviews.

The surgery itself went fine, but as early as 2 weeks after surgery I began to notice my jowls were returning. At 5 months my face was more gaunt and jowls more noticeable then before the surgery. In addition, I had post surgical complications which have required medical attention. The facelift was not only a failure but also caused large bags under my eyes which now require another surgery to fix.

Dr. Harley has never taken responsibility for the poor work nor assisted me in any way with either the medical issues or the cosmetic issued resulting from the surgery. How much have I lost so far? $6400 for the surgery, $2500 in travel expenses, $2500 in follow up medical care, and corrections.

$5000 pending for the surgical revision I have scheduled. Because of my experience I tried to update my review of the surgery online. Because it was negative, I was immediately attacked by other reviewers who were clearly friends or employees of the doctor's. Some, I found out were receiving free services.

Real Self responded by blocking my access to the site. When I asked what I had done specifically to be blocked from sharing or discussing my experience they would not tell me. I created a new profile and again attempted to post my real experience with the doctor and once it again my review was removed and I was blocked without explanation. Dr.

Harley's business is almost entirely all patients who have found him on RealSelf. I found out that 80% of the positive reviews are posted 1 week to 1.5 months after surgery before the skin laxity returns and the patient sees it did not work. Because the site removes all of the negative reviews, the public only sees positive reviews so they book their surgery and the cycle continues. Dr.

Harley and RealSelf are engaged in predatory marketing and fraud. There is an unusually high percentage of Dr. Harley's patients who end up with lip palsy from the surgery, but you will not see that posted in reviews, only in discussing the surgery privately with unhappy patients. The site should be taken down.

Plastic surgery should not be sold on "reviews" like a blender you are buying on Amazon. This is surgery - its risky, its permanent and there should be marketing regulations in place to keep predators like RealSelf and Dr. Harley from at best taking advantage of people and at worst, harming them. Please complain to the Washington Attorney General (RealSelf is based in Seattle) and to the FTC.

There are several pages out there that discuss the fraud being perpetuated by RealSelf and its doctors. I've already filed my complaints and am now seeking out journalists who may be interested in investigating it further.

Reason of review: Fraud, predatory marketing.

Monetary Loss: $9000.

Preferred solution: Let the company propose a solution.

Realself Cons: Fake positive reviews and deleted honest negative reviews, Predatory and fraudulent marketing.

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@Audreyanna Qxs

I don't enjoy drama. Olivia (Speakupnow2017 and other aliases on here) went on RealSelf stirring the pot and bragging that "Forty" was on here.

I came and looked and did not think it was her and defended my friend from the lies being written on here. She was bullied and Olivia sent PMs to women to scare them and harrassed people. That is what got her booted. Then she goes and gets a lawyer letter to try and muscle her way back on Realself trying to say she was censored.

Bull. Forty told me she was not posting here. That means one thing; Someone with an agenda did so, went to Realself and bragged about it and is now dragging my friends name through the mud. Not cool.

I had a consult with Dr. Harley, I can say whatever I want about my experience. No, I chose not to use Dr. Harley after my friend had issues.

Her lip issue healed, but her one eye does not close. Her brows are back to normal, but the one eye still does not close. I need my eyes done after 200 lbs of weight loss, like she did, but I need a brow lift and forehead lift and do not feel comfortable traveling 2,000 miles to a doctor who is does not have the occultosurgery fellowship. I waited for her one year pact to see what happened and that is my choice.

It makes no sense for me to have a facelift separately, it would cost more. I don't think anyone needs to be canonized, I think you should try putting yourself in other's shoes as fast as you condemn them for not doing the same. You are no better than what you are criticizing and if one of you faked her on here, you are downright {{Redacted}}. If my doctor hurt me as you say, I would not be on here, but in a lawyer's office.

Seems like this is a bit like shooting a BB into an elephant. From what I see on RS, Dr. Harley has not taken one bit of a hit. Instead of trying to take down his business, get a lawyer!

Get him to pay for your repairs and for your costs!! No one on here has done a scientific study to be able to report an "unusually high number of lip palsy," and no one on here knows the real deal poster is even forty for sure and it bragging on RS for us to come and see this. I know it isn't her and she is pretty upset that her name has been used. It will be reported, too.

Go ahead with your last words. Karl Marx (probably your hero) has a great quote about last words. Go look it up ;) Olivia is not maimed and not any worse off than before. Why are all of you having her do this when she was not harmed?

That is what I don't get. You say I must like drama? Seems you like to point a finger at exactly your own MO.

Rules for Radicals. You better watch out with some of these tactics or the both of you are going to have a problem legally.


Before you start your own brand of name calling and saying people are trashy and ugly realize that Forty also attacked and shamed people who refused to agree with her. If you dish it out, you have to be willing to take it.As far as your explanation of her personal reasons were for doing multiple surgeries, don't try to canonize her as being any different from any other vain woman getting plastic surgery.

You don't need a browlift, a facelift , an eyelid lift and filler to heal from cancer unless you had the cancer on your face and that wasn't the case here.I am not the one who dragged her name here and pinned it to the very detailed review of a bad surgery on this blog, but I will agree with several others it bears too many similarities to not be her especially since the person mentions their "large following" on RealSelf.I have seen photos of her husband, and with all due respect I don't see what you see.

Some women develop odd attachment to their plastic surgeons for some reason. I have no idea if that's what happened, I would love to know why someone would continue to sing the praises of someone who left their face like that.


Fortycankissit/Therealdeal:I was another person you tried to shame on RS when I wrote about my palsy, scars etc. It was you who basically screaming at me "YOU SIGNED THE PAPERS" basically telling me that Dr.

Harley was absolved from the botched work on my face. I'm perplexed why you have written this tirade trying to make Olivia the bad guy here because she was upset how she was treated by RealSelf and upset at the complications from her surgery from the Biltmore Lift.Yet here you are starting your comments by saying Dr. Harley damaged you and listing the ways. Interesting that you are more angry with Real Self than the doctor because he is nice and kind and has a heart.

Well so do dogs but I'm not going to give them a knife and say have at my face then oops a daisy I know you didn't mean to do this.You gave up a following of ladies? Yes, women who read your review and wanted to believe that this was the doctor for them.

You were so caught up in your so called following and the attention that it afforded.Bottom line though you were blocked from Real Self for calling the women who were not happy with their Biltmore Lift "heifers". That was the last straw.


I am not sure if this is 40 like other replies are claiming but if it is i am glad to know what happened. Kind of thinking maybe?

since she had a big following. I think it is very admirable to tell the whole story. Whoever this person is obviously tried to wait out a complication and found it was permanent. That sucks.

I think i'll go for a deep plane and i have been hovering for a while.Thanks for sharing and sorry you have some trolls dogging you out. There are so many people who are brave behind the screen.

RS should not be letting doctors pay money for rank if that is what is going on??? Geez.


@Faceliftorbust - its only admirable to share the whole story when you don't shame other people for doing the same thing. There are other women who tried to warn people by sharing their bad results, nerve damage, pain, scarring, but were attacked and called heifers or worse by Forty and her followers.

Not too admirable. You are being a troll by criticizing someone for reminding Forty of her behavior against others who tried to speak out. Now, even with all of the damage she is reporting from the surgery, she is still putting herself on a pedestal as being a moral example by not filing a malpractice suit and telling other people they should follow her example because they knew the risks. Excuse me?

Everyone knows when they get behind the wheel of a car they can die in an accident, but does that mean the car companies aren't accountable for the fatalities caused by vehicle defects? If TheRealDeal wants to live with her damaged face and chalk it up to experience that's her call, but it is ridiculous to make it seem like everyone else who has been damaged should follow her example. She likes to boast of her large following, when instead she should be apologizing to all of the lambs she led to the slaughter with an inaccurate review. I wonder how many people's surgery decision was swayed with with her review of her doctor, while all the while she was obviously having far more complications than she was sharing online.

How many people chose that doctor because of her, and are now living with pain or a damaged faces? Shameful.

@Audreyanna Qxs

Olivia with one of her "many" aliases. You were the jerk to 40. She just waited for her result before making a final decision and was honest about her fears, issues.You saying she led people to slaughter is inflammatory considering you don't even know if this is her posting in the first place.I would hate to be the sugar daddy that had to put up with you.


Agreed on someone who can't accept aging. This person is on a warpath and that can't be helping.


If the person who posted about this botched job isn't Forty, then Dr. Harley is an even bigger *** than people previously stated.

Can you imagine if there were 2 people with that amount of damage in the last year? Makes you wonder if there are any others.Its odd you feel a botched surgical patient must wait a year before posting results, but its ok for everyone else to post results after 2-4 week? If surgical results are not final for a year, then any review done earlier than a year could be labled as misleading.I'm surprised to see how many Harley patients are now coming forward on the Real Self site showing their awful photos and talking about how wrong their surgeries have gone. It appears the ladies who complained about his work last year weren't too far off the mark!

I'm happy didn't have surgery with him. I've seen several other women comment they are canceling their surgeries and losing their deposits to choose someone better.


I think 40 was waiting for her one year before she made a final decision. From what I hear her lip has healed.Most doctors ask you wait a year before going on tirades and that is what she did and to be honest the two women here are a lot like Mary and Olivia who jumped all over 40.

I would have called you worse than heifers. You scared a lot of people who had great results for no reason and had no goal of anything but financial compensation. So quit hiding behind the "I am trying to warn people" lie.You were over filled in the first place and need to move on. Everyone on RS was commenting that 40 handled you slimy characters with grace.

I agree. I don't think this is her.

She messaged me that her lip has a full recovery. I think you make a bunch of users that are one user who is a nutbag who can't accept aging.


@disgusted - its interesting you say certain people can't accept aging? Have you had cosmetic surgery?

Did you realize Forty was a plastic surgery addict? Pot...meet Kettle


REALSELF exposed here:



really trying to extend that 15 min of fame aren't you?


I think its funny that there are 24 complaints about realself but almost 800 about pissed consumer lolol


Cantlie - Your opinion of me personally is moot. This is not the first nor the last complaint that will be posted about RealSelf.


I am blown away by your accusations. I have thoroughly read all of your comments here and on RealSelf.

Your comments on RealSelf a couple of months ago stated you did not blame Dr. Harley and said he is a skilled surgeon. Shortly after you swung 180 degrees and started with the tone used here.

Why should I believe you?

You may have gathered a following that believes your whole story but I do not. In fact, because of the many, many inconsistencies, flawed conclusions, questionable photos and self proclaimed expert status in medical practices and cosmetic surgery, legal issues, insurance, such as your reasoning here why it is carried and a slew of other misquided subjects, I do not buy your whole story or your altruistic motives. I do not give you much credibility. You may have had some issue that quite possibly could have been resolved, and could very well not be anyone’s “fault” but one of the outcomes associated with risk of surgery.

Are there patients who have issues after surgeries Absolutely there are. However, you have taken resolvable issues, such as temporary nerve issues, that are very likely to resolve, and worded the scenarios to insinuate some wrongdoing and to cause fear intentionally with your posts. You draw conclusions from edited versions of your reality and claim some type of conspiracy.

Your Joan of Arc approach is despicable. You have every right to your opinion but that is all.


Notbuyingit - The review process on Real Self has been an ongoing issue of debate. Reviews are usually posted in the first few weeks after surgery when the patient is euphoric because the swelling makes them look 10 years younger.

Then when the patient realizes they've had poor results or post surgical complications they will start to comment on other people's reviews leaking small bits of information about their poor results and will message others to discuss their dissatisfaction. However, many will not update their review with negative comments because that could result in being blocked by Real Self and/or being harassed by people like you for sharing their experience. Therefore, many positive reviews remain even when the surgical result was actually negative. I changed my review because I realized if I didn't update it with what actually happened to me, I would be contributing to the problem of misinformation.

In case it escaped your attention, the idea of "conspiracy" (for lack of a better word) between Real Self and its paying doctors was not created by me - there are others who started questioning and complaining about the site removing or editing negative content more than 4 years ago.

My post was just added to the ongoing blog about Real Self fraud that was started by someone else!


There are at least 23 complaints that have been created about Real Self fraud because of edited information and botched surgeries by Real Self "professionals". My complaint is not unique and it only one of several made this year alone. You should peruse all of the complaints going back several years to get a better idea of how many people have been affected by Real Self.

Whether or not you personally believe me and/or any others who have spoken out is of little concern. These complaints are written by people to help other people who are still in the decision making process of choosing a surgeon. You may not find the information useful, but others will.

With regard to motive, if I hadn't experienced poor results and/or continue to battle with post surgical problems then what would be my motive of posting a complaint?

The larger question here is the motive behind YOUR angry response. Unless you are the doctor or the owner of Real Self there would be no logic to your surprise or disgust over one person's complaint, since it does not affect you personally.

On self proclaimed expertise, you need to take your own advice! You are not a doctor, so you are not in any position to give advice about what kinds of post surgical problems are temporary and/or do or do not constitute malpractice or wrongdoing on the part of a surgeon.

To close, I leave you with this VERY informative information about Real Self danger and deceptive marketing being used by surgeons. Educate yourself to the larger problem here instead of spinning your wheels picking apart my personal complaint.

This is much bigger than you realize. https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/realselfcom/internet/realselfcom-realself-real-self-ask-a-doctor-beware-phony-review-site-realselfcom-int-117****




You don't need to believe me - look at the ever increasing amount of information appearing online about this issue.


Notbuyingit - sorry if this posts more than once, my computer is acting up today! In a nutshell, yes of course I changed my review - like everyone else I made the mistake of posting a glowing review of Dr.

Harley only a week after my surgery. When things changed, sagged, and problems arose I updated the review accordingly. I continued to email him and let him know my concerns every step of the way - there wasn't really much accomplished through those discussions with the doctor. My review was never about getting anything for myself, only to let others know that there are some surgical outcomes with this doctor that are not good.

If I have a following online it is only because I am one of the very few people willing to speak up. Most women do not take too kindly to people such as yourself who harass others for saying anything negative - so they keep quiet to avoid the backlash. Personal insults from people that hide behind anonymous online profiles do not intimidate me however. I'm not on RealSelf anymore, so I really have no further concern about what is being discussed on that review or what anyone does or does not believe.

Its worth noting that the "conspiracy" theory about Real Self and the doctors paying for advertising was not started by me! There are over 23 complaints dating back to 2014 on the subject here on this site, plus a very eye opening Ripoff Report about the deception that is transpiring and the damage being inflicted on patients. Interestingly enough, my complaint is the only one anyone is paying any attention to even though my complaint is neither unique nor singular in this matter.

With regard your comments and self proclaimed expert status on post surgical issues, it would be best if you left the educated conclusions on those matters to actual doctors. You are not the surgeon that performed my procedure; you do not have my medical records, nor have you done

a physical assessment of my face pre/post surgery.

You are therefore not qualified to discuss whether or not the post surgery problems are temporary or permanent, nor if they are caused by wrongdoing or oversight.

My "motives" are simple - I would have no reason to write a complaint if I had good results.

Your motives are questionable - unless you are the doctor, there is no reason you should be blown away, disgusted or shocked by my complaint. If you are speaking on behalf of the doctor's office (and you know me personally) you would be better served contacting me directly rather than hiding behind an anonymous statement on a public board.


Then why don’t you post your real name?

Sorry too many holes in your story.


? I don’t need to post my name - I’ve been followed here from RealSelf it’s no secret who I am.

And how about you? What is your user name on Real Self ? Are you willing to expose who you are ?

You still can’t explain why my complaint against this doctor upsets you so much personally so with all due respect this is less about holes in my “story” and more about your shady reasons for lurking on this one complaint. There are 22 other complaints here about the same issues with other Real Self doctors, so again I ask, why are you here?

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