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75 comments

I had the Biltmore Lift 6 months ago with Dr.Harley after finding him on RealSelf.com and seeing all the positive reviews.

The surgery itself went fine, but as early as 2 weeks after surgery I began to notice my jowls were returning. At 5 months my face was more gaunt and jowls more noticeable then before the surgery. In addition, I had post surgical complications which have required medical attention. The facelift was not only a failure but also caused large bags under my eyes which now require another surgery to fix.

Dr. Harley has never taken responsibility for the poor work nor assisted me in any way with either the medical issues or the cosmetic issued resulting from the surgery. How much have I lost so far? $6400 for the surgery, $2500 in travel expenses, $2500 in follow up medical care, and corrections.

$5000 pending for the surgical revision I have scheduled. Because of my experience I tried to update my review of the surgery online. Because it was negative, I was immediately attacked by other reviewers who were clearly friends or employees of the doctor's. Some, I found out were receiving free services.

Real Self responded by blocking my access to the site. When I asked what I had done specifically to be blocked from sharing or discussing my experience they would not tell me. I created a new profile and again attempted to post my real experience with the doctor and once it again my review was removed and I was blocked without explanation. Dr.

Harley's business is almost entirely all patients who have found him on RealSelf. I found out that 80% of the positive reviews are posted 1 week to 1.5 months after surgery before the skin laxity returns and the patient sees it did not work. Because the site removes all of the negative reviews, the public only sees positive reviews so they book their surgery and the cycle continues. Dr.

Harley and RealSelf are engaged in predatory marketing and fraud. There is an unusually high percentage of Dr. Harley's patients who end up with lip palsy from the surgery, but you will not see that posted in reviews, only in discussing the surgery privately with unhappy patients. The site should be taken down.

Plastic surgery should not be sold on "reviews" like a blender you are buying on Amazon. This is surgery - its risky, its permanent and there should be marketing regulations in place to keep predators like RealSelf and Dr. Harley from at best taking advantage of people and at worst, harming them. Please complain to the Washington Attorney General (RealSelf is based in Seattle) and to the FTC.

There are several pages out there that discuss the fraud being perpetuated by RealSelf and its doctors.I've already filed my complaints and am now seeking out journalists who may be interested in investigating it further.

Review about: Plastic Surgery Doctor.

Reason of review: Fraud, predatory marketing.

Monetary Loss: $9000.

Preferred solution: Let the company propose a solution.

I didn't like: Fake positive reviews and deleted honest negative reviews, Predatory and fraudulent marketing.

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Anonymous
#1451492

I am going to chime in here from a very personal perspective.I am a patient who was damaged by Dr.Harley.While I have several issues (nerve damage, incomplete eye closure and gapping, strange bunching around the mouth when I smile in chin area) I did know that loss of volume would happen with facelift and it is a common complaint of people to look skeletal after especially if they are already slim.I also signed up for the Biltmore lift to kiss fillers goodbye for a while and save money in the long term.

I did expect some volume loss, but not the amount that I had when the swelling subsided.There is some truth in the fact that the first several months is a "Honeymoon" period because you are swollen still and that offers some beautiful filling. However, when that fades and you are left with the real volume loss each particular person can experience; It can be shocking. I was not prepared for that.I look older now. Bottom line.

He did a great job on my neck and I think if I had to do it again that is the only thing he would have touched. He hurt me when he injected my lip and went way too deep. I have had my lips done before and never experienced that kind of pain. I didn't make a big deal about it, but I am not left wondering if he cut my nerve, hit something with the injection that causes my bottom lip not to function properly any longer.

Also when I speak I have developed a strange wrinkling that almost looks stroke-like. I could pick apart so many things, but gave Dr. Harley a chance to fix them. He stood behind trying to correct it and we even scheduled a new revision.

However, when I spoke to him intensely about why my brow know had a palsy as well as my lip, why my eyes had visible gaps on the side after bleph (he also agreed "yes, I see that." All I was offered was "I have never seen that happen that way, it could have been the filler in the lip." He offered nothing over the eye. He offered to fix the brow by cutting directly above the eyebrow for a direct brow lift, which is effective but has a bad scar and frankly after the damage he has caused me, I didn't trust it. He did offer to make me happy by giving me a substantial bit of filler to pull up my mid face and maybe distract from my crazy mouth. He was kind about it and did try to be kind and helpful.

He didn't understand my particular malfunction of the mouth and told me he has never seen it. I had another doctor who also looked at it and said they had not seen that particular palsy post facelift. I plan to see another doctor in April to further assess this situation as it has been a year with no resolution. My eyes do not close when I sleep.

I can't smile too big anymore or that lip palsy shows and my eyebrow palsy has totally changed my face. I cry a lot about it, regret the original vanity that led me to capriciously do the last minute bleph. If I show you before and after pictures a year later, you will see I look much older. My neck does look younger, but my face looks older.

I am trying to write this to say I understand what you are saying and how hard this journey has been for you. I originally thought you were a troublemaker, I thought you were rude. I do think your anger has made it hard for people to understand you. Now for the RealSelf issue.

Dr. Harley pays Realself very little in comparison to other doctors. I was removed for DEFENDING him. I was told I could not do that.

At the time and to this day, I do defend his honor and his concern for me. He is and will always be one of the nicest, kindest doctors I have met. With that said, I think he does have some technique issues that need addressing. In particular with the eyes.

I think unless you are an occultoplastic/ fellowship trained eye doctor and that is all you do....you should probably not risk some eyes. The problem I have is that Dr. Harley did not recognize that I did not need a bleph. I needed a brow lift and that is something a trained eye doctor understands.

I think he is probably fine with many blephs and does a good job until he gets to those "special" cases that really trained eye doctors understand because that is their field. RealSelf treated me like trash. I was threatened for defending him. There are others on RS (reviewers) who are big fans of "their doctors" and some of those are almost neurotic on following Dr.

Harley and trying to "stir the pot" Olivia was not one of those. Those who are jealous of Dr. Harley's following and do that, know who they are. I had one even ask me to make it sound "worse." As if not ever being able to smile fully again wasn't bad enough.

I had Community Moderators cussing out the staff of RS and even complaining of the dysfunction. I have this saved, screenshotted. Bottom line? Yes, RS protects and promotes the doctors the more they "pay." They have a tier system of benefits based on the doctor's payment option/selected plan.

Dr. Harley is not one of the higher paying doctors and I was told not to defend him. I am trying to be as unbiased as possible. Dr.

Harley has the kind of heart that makes you want to defend him. Did I have complications more than I expected? Yes. Did Realself try to silence me when I was "defending" him?

Yes. Retrospectively, I wasn't trying to "defend" him. I was trying to give my doctor a chance. A chance to fix the issues, to wait for resolution and to give it a year.

That year has passed, he gave me an offer of a brow lift, had no advice about my palsy, gave me some filler to make me happy and treated me with respect, but I truly sensed he realized he made a mistake. Will I sue him? No. I am a lady raised in that way of thinking that to sue is low class.

I signed papers, I knew the risks. You do sign them when you are very dopey and there are so many things that they list, but I did my research. Now this rare palsy I have was not explained to me. Still, I don't want to sue him.

I just want to live my life, be happy, learn from this, tell my story to others so they can make a true informed decision. Olivia, I think you should take that energy and create a site with true unbiased reviews. You and I had our lock ins, and you had a few coming if you are honest with yourself, but I know it was because you were mad about your issues and I was trying to be optimistic and give it some time. I do think your warrior spirit can take a neurotic turn and you need to channel that.

It is a gift. I think the truth is always in the middle and Dr. Harley is a good man, but there have been issues and the public needs to have access to all opinions (tastefully) and Realself needs to clean house and get a staff with a clue. It guys who look down on us for getting plastic surgery and hipster chicks who want to keep heavy paying doctor's happy (that's their job) is not a good combo for a plastic surgery site.

Time to get the right demographic running that site. Ok...so that long piece of typing is my 2 cents. Love to you all. Olivia, I hope you find resolution and I do, too.

I think after you sent the lawyer letter to RS that was pretty much the end of anyone wanting to touch you. I get why you did it, but what is all this anger going to do? It isn't worth any amount of money to let this eat you alive. That's just where I am.

Hope you don't go off on me next. I am really trying to help. I gave up a huge following of ladies I loved because I could not deal with RS censoring me. I did go on there under another name to check on some old friends and asked about my palsy again, but plan to remove that now that I know I am stuck with this unless I want to spend 10K or better for a "maybe" and now that I left not feeling I could trust a brow fix from Dr.

Harley.I do respect him totally, I just can't trust him touching my eyes again.

Anonymous
to TheREALdeal #1451496

One more thought: I do think it is a TOTAL conflict of interest for a website to take payment to promote doctors by that payment and NOT by proven skill or uncensored results and allow us to detrimentally rely on that imbalanced racket.Anyone who thinks that is a good idea, to get your reviews from a site that allows that, does that.....just keep it in mind when you do your due diligence that it is going on.

SelectiveAiredaleTerrier
to TheREALdeal #1461958

@therealdeal - your comments don't make any sense.You said your surgery made you look older, you can't close your eyes and you were left with a rare palsy but you got kicked off the RealSelf website for defending the doctor who did it.

??? Did the surgery impair your mind as well?Not sure how many hours you spent typing this monologue but it lacks any point or logic.

Are you agreeing with the original review about RealSelf fraud, or letting everyone know you have insider info about pending lawsuits against the website and possess private information about the doctor's finances and advertising costs?If there are any pending lawsuits, I hope this comment has been printed and saved.TheRealDeal seems to have a wealth of non public information about the doctor and the website she wants to share.

Anonymous
to TheREALdeal #1462809

Fortycankissit/Therealdeal:I was another person you tried to shame on RS when I wrote about my palsy, scars etc.It was you who basically screaming at me "YOU SIGNED THE PAPERS" basically telling me that Dr.

Harley was absolved from the botched work on my face. I'm perplexed why you have written this tirade trying to make Olivia the bad guy here because she was upset how she was treated by RealSelf and upset at the complications from her surgery from the Biltmore Lift.Yet here you are starting your comments by saying Dr. Harley damaged you and listing the ways. Interesting that you are more angry with Real Self than the doctor because he is nice and kind and has a heart.

Well so do dogs but I'm not going to give them a knife and say have at my face then oops a daisy I know you didn't mean to do this.You gave up a following of ladies? Yes, women who read your review and wanted to believe that this was the doctor for them.

You were so caught up in your so called following and the attention that it afforded.Bottom line though you were blocked from Real Self for calling the women who were not happy with their Biltmore Lift "heifers".That was the last straw.

Anonymous
to Another Botched Face #1465066

I am not sure if this is 40 like other replies are claiming but if it is i am glad to know what happened.Kind of thinking maybe?

since she had a big following. I think it is very admirable to tell the whole story. Whoever this person is obviously tried to wait out a complication and found it was permanent. That sucks.

I think i'll go for a deep plane and i have been hovering for a while.Thanks for sharing and sorry you have some trolls dogging you out. There are so many people who are brave behind the screen.

RS should not be letting doctors pay money for rank if that is what is going on???Geez.

Anonymous
#1429387

REALSELF exposed here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/censorship/comments/7vuft7/realself_bans_and_censorship/

Anonymous
to Anonymous #1429932

really trying to extend that 15 min of fame aren't you?

Anonymous
#1429213

I think its funny that there are 24 complaints about realself but almost 800 about pissed consumer lolol

Anonymous
#1423976

Cantlie - Your opinion of me personally is moot. This is not the first nor the last complaint that will be posted about RealSelf.

Anonymous
#1420955

I am blown away by your accusations.I have thoroughly read all of your comments here and on RealSelf.

Your comments on RealSelf a couple of months ago stated you did not blame Dr. Harley and said he is a skilled surgeon. Shortly after you swung 180 degrees and started with the tone used here.

Why should I believe you?

You may have gathered a following that believes your whole story but I do not. In fact, because of the many, many inconsistencies, flawed conclusions, questionable photos and self proclaimed expert status in medical practices and cosmetic surgery, legal issues, insurance, such as your reasoning here why it is carried and a slew of other misquided subjects, I do not buy your whole story or your altruistic motives. I do not give you much credibility. You may have had some issue that quite possibly could have been resolved, and could very well not be anyone’s “fault” but one of the outcomes associated with risk of surgery.

Are there patients who have issues after surgeries Absolutely there are. However, you have taken resolvable issues, such as temporary nerve issues, that are very likely to resolve, and worded the scenarios to insinuate some wrongdoing and to cause fear intentionally with your posts. You draw conclusions from edited versions of your reality and claim some type of conspiracy.

Your Joan of Arc approach is despicable.You have every right to your opinion but that is all.

Anonymous
to Notbuyingit #1421084

Notbuyingit - The review process on Real Self has been an ongoing issue of debate.Reviews are usually posted in the first few weeks after surgery when the patient is euphoric because the swelling makes them look 10 years younger.

Then when the patient realizes they've had poor results or post surgical complications they will start to comment on other people's reviews leaking small bits of information about their poor results and will message others to discuss their dissatisfaction. However, many will not update their review with negative comments because that could result in being blocked by Real Self and/or being harassed by people like you for sharing their experience. Therefore, many positive reviews remain even when the surgical result was actually negative. I changed my review because I realized if I didn't update it with what actually happened to me, I would be contributing to the problem of misinformation.

In case it escaped your attention, the idea of "conspiracy" (for lack of a better word) between Real Self and its paying doctors was not created by me - there are others who started questioning and complaining about the site removing or editing negative content more than 4 years ago.

My post was just added to the ongoing blog about Real Self fraud that was started by someone else!

https://realself.pissedconsumer.com/reviews/RT-P.html

There are at least 23 complaints that have been created about Real Self fraud because of edited information and botched surgeries by Real Self "professionals". My complaint is not unique and it only one of several made this year alone. You should peruse all of the complaints going back several years to get a better idea of how many people have been affected by Real Self.

Whether or not you personally believe me and/or any others who have spoken out is of little concern. These complaints are written by people to help other people who are still in the decision making process of choosing a surgeon. You may not find the information useful, but others will.

With regard to motive, if I hadn't experienced poor results and/or continue to battle with post surgical problems then what would be my motive of posting a complaint?

The larger question here is the motive behind YOUR angry response. Unless you are the doctor or the owner of Real Self there would be no logic to your surprise or disgust over one person's complaint, since it does not affect you personally.

On self proclaimed expertise, you need to take your own advice! You are not a doctor, so you are not in any position to give advice about what kinds of post surgical problems are temporary and/or do or do not constitute malpractice or wrongdoing on the part of a surgeon.

To close, I leave you with this VERY informative information about Real Self danger and deceptive marketing being used by surgeons. Educate yourself to the larger problem here instead of spinning your wheels picking apart my personal complaint.

This is much bigger than you realize.https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/realselfcom/internet/realselfcom-realself-real-self-ask-a-doctor-beware-phony-review-site-realselfcom-int-1175963

Anonymous
to Notbuyingit #1421085

https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/realselfcom/internet/realselfcom-realself-real-self-ask-a-doctor-beware-phony-review-site-realselfcom-int-1175963

https://realself.pissedconsumer.com/reviews/RT-P.html

You don't need to believe me - look at the ever increasing amount of information appearing online about this issue.

Anonymous
to Notbuyingit #1421131

Notbuyingit - sorry if this posts more than once, my computer is acting up today!In a nutshell, yes of course I changed my review - like everyone else I made the mistake of posting a glowing review of Dr.

Harley only a week after my surgery. When things changed, sagged, and problems arose I updated the review accordingly. I continued to email him and let him know my concerns every step of the way - there wasn't really much accomplished through those discussions with the doctor. My review was never about getting anything for myself, only to let others know that there are some surgical outcomes with this doctor that are not good.

If I have a following online it is only because I am one of the very few people willing to speak up. Most women do not take too kindly to people such as yourself who harass others for saying anything negative - so they keep quiet to avoid the backlash. Personal insults from people that hide behind anonymous online profiles do not intimidate me however. I'm not on RealSelf anymore, so I really have no further concern about what is being discussed on that review or what anyone does or does not believe.

Its worth noting that the "conspiracy" theory about Real Self and the doctors paying for advertising was not started by me! There are over 23 complaints dating back to 2014 on the subject here on this site, plus a very eye opening Ripoff Report about the deception that is transpiring and the damage being inflicted on patients. Interestingly enough, my complaint is the only one anyone is paying any attention to even though my complaint is neither unique nor singular in this matter.

With regard your comments and self proclaimed expert status on post surgical issues, it would be best if you left the educated conclusions on those matters to actual doctors. You are not the surgeon that performed my procedure; you do not have my medical records, nor have you done

a physical assessment of my face pre/post surgery.

You are therefore not qualified to discuss whether or not the post surgery problems are temporary or permanent, nor if they are caused by wrongdoing or oversight.

My "motives" are simple - I would have no reason to write a complaint if I had good results.

Your motives are questionable - unless you are the doctor, there is no reason you should be blown away, disgusted or shocked by my complaint.If you are speaking on behalf of the doctor's office (and you know me personally) you would be better served contacting me directly rather than hiding behind an anonymous statement on a public board.

Anonymous
to Speakupnow2017 #1421233

Then why don’t you post your real name?

Sorry too many holes in your story.

Anonymous
to Notbuyingit #1421262

?I don’t need to post my name - I’ve been followed here from RealSelf it’s no secret who I am.

And how about you? What is your user name on Real Self ? Are you willing to expose who you are ?

You still can’t explain why my complaint against this doctor upsets you so much personally so with all due respect this is less about holes in my “story” and more about your shady reasons for lurking on this one complaint.There are 22 other complaints here about the same issues with other Real Self doctors, so again I ask, why are you here?

Anonymous
to Notbuyingit #1422384

I agree with your analogy Not.She seems to think all positive reviews are fake but all negative ones are true.

I cant make any sense of the way she tries to reason so I guess she cant either.Its no wonder.

Anonymous
#1420775

Cantlie - what has occurred to me is that when “one person” responds there are posts appearing simultaneously from “other” users basically parroting what the first person said. This board is not a blog - there is no one following it and for most people that post a review it can take months before anyone new even responds . The constant harassment from the one or two people posting here and making themselves appear to be numerous “new” people commenting is laughable.

Anonymous
#1420713

Well, from my research and my own experience - Dr.Harley is a very talented and capable surgeon.

I had the Biltmore lift in September and I am very happy with my results. My scars are not visible, my jaw and neck are tight, smooth- no more jowls. It even reduced my marionette lines. I don’t think there is a plastic surgeon out there who can please 100 percent of the people 100 percent of the time.

However, I know Dr. Harley to be conscientious, ethical, fair and I’m sure he is willing to help any of his patients with any type of post surgical concern. I’ve heard this from more than one woman, on realself. It must be the wZy you handle the situation.

I guess if you’re not willing to allow the doctor who did the work to help you you’re just out of luck!

It’s your choice to spend all that money on fillers and revision.

Good luck

Anonymous
to Ivegotrythm #1421127

Ivegotrythm, I'm very pleased you had a good experience - its a bit early to know your final result since you haven't hit 6 months yet but hopefully your results won't change as mine did.I'm not sure why you would assume without being a medical professional that having a surgical revision is appropriate for me?

Other doctors have told me having the skin stretched again is not necessarily the best move at this point, and there is no guarantee that Dr. Harley would be able to change the outcome plus I would risk nerve damage and additional scarring.

You are right, I am out of luck, because my money has already been spent and now I have to deal with the medical issue and the scarring etc on my own. And that, madame, is the entire reason for this complaint.

People buy everything now based on reviews - we rely upon them. If you bought a $10,000 leather sofa online that had great reviews and ended up finding out after you owned it for 6 months that it was already breaking down and wearing out would you write a review to let others know not to buy it? Of course you would.

Reviews don't mean every single person has the same experience - they do express each person's individual experience and it is the cumulative of all written reviews that help a person make their final decision.

Your review is just as important as mine - and for your sake, I do hope that your final result will hold.

I was right at where you are at in my healing when my face really started to take a turn for the worse.Best of luck

Anonymous
to Ivegotrythm #1421425

agree all the way and I hope she spends tons of her husbands money with her stupid lawsuit/complaints.she equates her surgery with buying a couch for crying out loud lololol!!!

she has no concept of the fact that her own anatomy and hasty preemptive strike convoluted her result (because the swelling went away and her fillers couldn't hold up) were the probable reasons she didn't get the result she hoped for. everyone with any experience knows you don't pay for a result...it makes her look dumb whining about things beyond anyones control, including her own. shes more upset about the few people here defending him and not feeding in to her delusion than anything else, but shes in for a rude awakening...like a couple others, I send him screen captures to help him out ...hes a great doctor and a kind man...she will get nothing she hopes for because of her ego problem and thinking she knows more than any doctor when she doesn't like what they say.

I'm here commenting in his defense BECAUSE I CAN.her latest photos look altered to make her cheeks appear sucked in, its laughable, except for her husband having to put up with her witch hunt, poor guy :/

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