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95 comments

I had the Biltmore Lift 6 months ago with Dr. Harley after finding him on RealSelf.com and seeing all the positive reviews.

The surgery itself went fine, but as early as 2 weeks after surgery I began to notice my jowls were returning. At 5 months my face was more gaunt and jowls more noticeable then before the surgery. In addition, I had post surgical complications which have required medical attention. The facelift was not only a failure but also caused large bags under my eyes which now require another surgery to fix.

Dr. Harley has never taken responsibility for the poor work nor assisted me in any way with either the medical issues or the cosmetic issued resulting from the surgery. How much have I lost so far? $6400 for the surgery, $2500 in travel expenses, $2500 in follow up medical care, and corrections.

$5000 pending for the surgical revision I have scheduled. Because of my experience I tried to update my review of the surgery online. Because it was negative, I was immediately attacked by other reviewers who were clearly friends or employees of the doctor's. Some, I found out were receiving free services.

Real Self responded by blocking my access to the site. When I asked what I had done specifically to be blocked from sharing or discussing my experience they would not tell me. I created a new profile and again attempted to post my real experience with the doctor and once it again my review was removed and I was blocked without explanation. Dr.

Harley's business is almost entirely all patients who have found him on RealSelf. I found out that 80% of the positive reviews are posted 1 week to 1.5 months after surgery before the skin laxity returns and the patient sees it did not work. Because the site removes all of the negative reviews, the public only sees positive reviews so they book their surgery and the cycle continues. Dr.

Harley and RealSelf are engaged in predatory marketing and fraud. There is an unusually high percentage of Dr. Harley's patients who end up with lip palsy from the surgery, but you will not see that posted in reviews, only in discussing the surgery privately with unhappy patients. The site should be taken down.

Plastic surgery should not be sold on "reviews" like a blender you are buying on Amazon. This is surgery - its risky, its permanent and there should be marketing regulations in place to keep predators like RealSelf and Dr. Harley from at best taking advantage of people and at worst, harming them. Please complain to the Washington Attorney General (RealSelf is based in Seattle) and to the FTC.

There are several pages out there that discuss the fraud being perpetuated by RealSelf and its doctors. I've already filed my complaints and am now seeking out journalists who may be interested in investigating it further.

Review about: Plastic Surgery Doctor.

Reason of review: Fraud, predatory marketing.

Monetary Loss: $9000.

Preferred solution: Let the company propose a solution.

I didn't like: Fake positive reviews and deleted honest negative reviews, Predatory and fraudulent marketing.

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Anonymous
#1500708

Thanks for confirming, I have always been skeptical about this website, I found it impossible to be so precise in reviewing all the comments from consumers, I hardly found any negative. Today after reading your post, I am now going to research more through other websites.

Surgery is not a procedure to full around with, it is a serious topic where it is involving one's life, and surgeons that just look at it like a casino, a patient to them is just another jackpot!

They should be monitored more by the licensing and government agencies. Please beware and don't risk with surgeon s that do fake reviews.

SelectiveAiredaleTerrier
to Gali Renojo #1505109

Gali Renojo you are smart to be skeptical. I don't think the website is a total waste, it is a good place to research different kinds of procedures, find out about prices, bad side effects, results and of course we all like to look at photos!

But there is a dark side too. As you can see by all of the crazy comments here, there are people desperate to maintain the illusion the site contains honest, unmanipulated and unbiased information but that is just not the case. Google it.

Lots of pages will come up with people saying the same thing about fake reviews, and usually where there is smoke there is fire. You are 100% correct this is something that should be regulated and monitored by the government.

Anonymous
#1485974

Z4results, aka 50 aliases commenting here and on RealSelf: You are obsessively trolling Olivia and all the women who dare speak up about their botched facelifts with Dr. Harley.

You've been banned from RealSelf at the very least 20 times posting under different names due to your behaviour of stalking, trolling and shaming anyone with negative reviews and experiences due to the Biltmore Lift with Dr. Harley.

Anonymous
#1451492

I am going to chime in here from a very personal perspective.I am a patient who was damaged by Dr. Harley.While I have several issues (nerve damage, incomplete eye closure and gapping, strange bunching around the mouth when I smile in chin area) I did know that loss of volume would happen with facelift and it is a common complaint of people to look skeletal after especially if they are already slim.I also signed up for the Biltmore lift to kiss fillers goodbye for a while and save money in the long term.

I did expect some volume loss, but not the amount that I had when the swelling subsided.There is some truth in the fact that the first several months is a "Honeymoon" period because you are swollen still and that offers some beautiful filling. However, when that fades and you are left with the real volume loss each particular person can experience; It can be shocking. I was not prepared for that.I look older now. Bottom line.

He did a great job on my neck and I think if I had to do it again that is the only thing he would have touched. He hurt me when he injected my lip and went way too deep. I have had my lips done before and never experienced that kind of pain. I didn't make a big deal about it, but I am not left wondering if he cut my nerve, hit something with the injection that causes my bottom lip not to function properly any longer.

Also when I speak I have developed a strange wrinkling that almost looks stroke-like. I could pick apart so many things, but gave Dr. Harley a chance to fix them. He stood behind trying to correct it and we even scheduled a new revision.

However, when I spoke to him intensely about why my brow know had a palsy as well as my lip, why my eyes had visible gaps on the side after bleph (he also agreed "yes, I see that." All I was offered was "I have never seen that happen that way, it could have been the filler in the lip." He offered nothing over the eye. He offered to fix the brow by cutting directly above the eyebrow for a direct brow lift, which is effective but has a bad scar and frankly after the damage he has caused me, I didn't trust it. He did offer to make me happy by giving me a substantial bit of filler to pull up my mid face and maybe distract from my crazy mouth. He was kind about it and did try to be kind and helpful.

He didn't understand my particular malfunction of the mouth and told me he has never seen it. I had another doctor who also looked at it and said they had not seen that particular palsy post facelift. I plan to see another doctor in April to further assess this situation as it has been a year with no resolution. My eyes do not close when I sleep.

I can't smile too big anymore or that lip palsy shows and my eyebrow palsy has totally changed my face. I cry a lot about it, regret the original vanity that led me to capriciously do the last minute bleph. If I show you before and after pictures a year later, you will see I look much older. My neck does look younger, but my face looks older.

I am trying to write this to say I understand what you are saying and how hard this journey has been for you. I originally thought you were a troublemaker, I thought you were rude. I do think your anger has made it hard for people to understand you. Now for the RealSelf issue.

Dr. Harley pays Realself very little in comparison to other doctors. I was removed for DEFENDING him. I was told I could not do that.

At the time and to this day, I do defend his honor and his concern for me. He is and will always be one of the nicest, kindest doctors I have met. With that said, I think he does have some technique issues that need addressing. In particular with the eyes.

I think unless you are an occultoplastic/ fellowship trained eye doctor and that is all you do....you should probably not risk some eyes. The problem I have is that Dr. Harley did not recognize that I did not need a bleph. I needed a brow lift and that is something a trained eye doctor understands.

I think he is probably fine with many blephs and does a good job until he gets to those "special" cases that really trained eye doctors understand because that is their field. RealSelf treated me like trash. I was threatened for defending him. There are others on RS (reviewers) who are big fans of "their doctors" and some of those are almost neurotic on following Dr.

Harley and trying to "stir the pot" Olivia was not one of those. Those who are jealous of Dr. Harley's following and do that, know who they are. I had one even ask me to make it sound "worse." As if not ever being able to smile fully again wasn't bad enough.

I had Community Moderators cussing out the staff of RS and even complaining of the dysfunction. I have this saved, screenshotted. Bottom line? Yes, RS protects and promotes the doctors the more they "pay." They have a tier system of benefits based on the doctor's payment option/selected plan.

Dr. Harley is not one of the higher paying doctors and I was told not to defend him. I am trying to be as unbiased as possible. Dr.

Harley has the kind of heart that makes you want to defend him. Did I have complications more than I expected? Yes. Did Realself try to silence me when I was "defending" him?

Yes. Retrospectively, I wasn't trying to "defend" him. I was trying to give my doctor a chance. A chance to fix the issues, to wait for resolution and to give it a year.

That year has passed, he gave me an offer of a brow lift, had no advice about my palsy, gave me some filler to make me happy and treated me with respect, but I truly sensed he realized he made a mistake. Will I sue him? No. I am a lady raised in that way of thinking that to sue is low class.

I signed papers, I knew the risks. You do sign them when you are very dopey and there are so many things that they list, but I did my research. Now this rare palsy I have was not explained to me. Still, I don't want to sue him.

I just want to live my life, be happy, learn from this, tell my story to others so they can make a true informed decision. Olivia, I think you should take that energy and create a site with true unbiased reviews. You and I had our lock ins, and you had a few coming if you are honest with yourself, but I know it was because you were mad about your issues and I was trying to be optimistic and give it some time. I do think your warrior spirit can take a neurotic turn and you need to channel that.

It is a gift. I think the truth is always in the middle and Dr. Harley is a good man, but there have been issues and the public needs to have access to all opinions (tastefully) and Realself needs to clean house and get a staff with a clue. It guys who look down on us for getting plastic surgery and hipster chicks who want to keep heavy paying doctor's happy (that's their job) is not a good combo for a plastic surgery site.

Time to get the right demographic running that site. Ok...so that long piece of typing is my 2 cents. Love to you all. Olivia, I hope you find resolution and I do, too.

I think after you sent the lawyer letter to RS that was pretty much the end of anyone wanting to touch you. I get why you did it, but what is all this anger going to do? It isn't worth any amount of money to let this eat you alive. That's just where I am.

Hope you don't go off on me next. I am really trying to help. I gave up a huge following of ladies I loved because I could not deal with RS censoring me. I did go on there under another name to check on some old friends and asked about my palsy again, but plan to remove that now that I know I am stuck with this unless I want to spend 10K or better for a "maybe" and now that I left not feeling I could trust a brow fix from Dr.

Harley. I do respect him totally, I just can't trust him touching my eyes again.

Anonymous
to TheREALdeal #1451496

One more thought: I do think it is a TOTAL conflict of interest for a website to take payment to promote doctors by that payment and NOT by proven skill or uncensored results and allow us to detrimentally rely on that imbalanced racket.Anyone who thinks that is a good idea, to get your reviews from a site that allows that, does that.....just keep it in mind when you do your due diligence that it is going on.

SelectiveAiredaleTerrier
to TheREALdeal #1461958

@therealdeal - your comments don't make any sense. You said your surgery made you look older, you can't close your eyes and you were left with a rare palsy but you got kicked off the RealSelf website for defending the doctor who did it.

??? Did the surgery impair your mind as well?Not sure how many hours you spent typing this monologue but it lacks any point or logic.

Are you agreeing with the original review about RealSelf fraud, or letting everyone know you have insider info about pending lawsuits against the website and possess private information about the doctor's finances and advertising costs?If there are any pending lawsuits, I hope this comment has been printed and saved. TheRealDeal seems to have a wealth of non public information about the doctor and the website she wants to share.

Anonymous
to SelectiveAiredaleTerrier #1488603

I think the response is genuine which to disingenuous people, usually doesn't 'make sense.' Glad to hear more than the witchhunt that was here previously.

SelectiveAiredaleTerrier
to Enough #1492860

@Enough - I agree the response is genuine; genuinely crazy. If you followed Forty's profile you would have seen she had a plastic surgery addiction.

Many surgeries in the space of a few years. Then she ends up botched and admits she's damaged from the surgery and looks older but still claims the surgeon is a talented wonderful man.

That has no basis in logic, other than possibly a deep need to be liked by her surgeon because she's developed a crush on him or something to that effect. For most patients when they end up looking worse or living with a medical condition from a cosmetic procedure they do not recommend that doctor to others.

Anonymous
to SelectiveAiredaleTerrier #1493068

We don't know if this is forty. Throwing around names is not a good idea unless you know it is them.

With that said, the OP of this thread has admitted who she is, so that is a bit different.I also followed forty. She had many surgeries as many gastric bypass patients like us do and was very kind to me on my review for a brachioplasty. She was considering that surgery, but chose not to go for it because of the high complications of that surgery which leads me to my next remarks. She was aware of the complications of her mini face lift.

She also knew that it took a year or more to see the resolve of issues. I followed her and messaged her often to check on her. She is also my friend on FB. She was never abusive to other members, she did not take crap, but she was not mean.

Actually, it was the women she would not agree with before her one-year wait was up that were quite nasty to her and other posters/pre op posters. Her lip healed completely, so again, I do not think this is her. She was a real friend and I don't see this listed in this review and think someone is dragging her name over here. This is not an uncommon tactic from the bullying I saw happen to her and many other women on the site who dared to not agree with a certain person and her crew of 1 or 2 angry women.

To say someone is addicted to surgery because they have lost over a hundred lbs in 4 months, had cancer and wanted to rebuild their lives is nasty. I have followed this thread after it was mentioned on RS and forty's name was brought into it. I have kept quiet, but no more. You ladies need to stop being so presumptuous.

One of you even commented on forty's review with bubbling reviews and then turned a 180 when the filler wore off. The person complaining the loudest did not even have the temporary lip palsy forty had and the others did not even wait for the resolve before they were on a death squad to annihilate the doctor involved. Anyone on this site just needs to go do their due diligence and realize this is a mini lift, not a miracle. Mini-lifts equal mini results in my opinion, but still carry plenty of risks.

Myself, I need more and have taken my time to get the surgery. I know that forty had several consultations with two doctors in her town and two other doctors and really struggled with doing any of it. She waited about a year and a half before making a decision. If any of you women took a look at the picture of her husband on her profile, you would know that having a crush on her doctor is kind of laughable.

Her husband is gorgeous. I can tell you that Forty tried to give her doctor a chance before ripping him a new one on RS. She also felt very bad that a crew of a few women were bullying other candidates for the surgery and had been alerted along with RS staff that these rampaging women were private messaging prospective clients with the effort. This was taking it too far.

I get that women had complications, but so far none of them have posted about resolution or followed up except for OP here. They just hide behind the poster here and come trash anyone who disagrees on here and did the same on RS. People who aren't involved here and just really want to know what is happening, try coming to RS and seeing for yourself. It will become obvious very quickly.

Forty was not kicked off, which is the other reason I do not believe this is the same person. Forty told the staff to remove every one of her reviews and pictures as she would not be censored. She shared with me each FB message sent by her to the woman over moderating. It was not RS that asked her to leave, it was she that asked them to take her things off.

The reason they wanted her not to say anything positive about said doctor? They were being threatened by the OP of this whole threat with legal action.

That is true ugly. No amount of filler will ever cover the truth of that.

SelectiveAiredaleTerrier
to thereisnochangingtacky #1493504

Before you start your own brand of name calling and saying people are trashy and ugly realize that Forty also attacked and shamed people who refused to agree with her. If you dish it out, you have to be willing to take it.As far as your explanation of her personal reasons were for doing multiple surgeries, don't try to canonize her as being any different from any other vain woman getting plastic surgery.

You don't need a browlift, a facelift , an eyelid lift and filler to heal from cancer unless you had the cancer on your face and that wasn't the case here.I am not the one who dragged her name here and pinned it to the very detailed review of a bad surgery on this blog, but I will agree with several others it bears too many similarities to not be her especially since the person mentions their "large following" on RealSelf.I have seen photos of her husband, and with all due respect I don't see what you see.

Some women develop odd attachment to their plastic surgeons for some reason. I have no idea if that's what happened, I would love to know why someone would continue to sing the praises of someone who left their face like that.

SelectiveAiredaleTerrier
to thereisnochangingtacky #1493553

@thereisnochangingtacky - Please note that most people who are commenting here have actually had surgery with the doctor in question. You have not.

It is difficult if not impossible for you to know what it feels like to be taken advantage of after years of waiting and saving to do something for yourself. There is a reason people here are upset. Everyone wanders over from RealSelf and posts on this one single blog and yet there are pages of complaints by other people who have gotten bad plastic surgery from highly reviewed doctors on RealSelf because the reviews are fake, fixed, edited, whatever.You seem pretty deep into RealSelf for someone who hasn't had surgery, maybe you enjoy the RS drama or see it as an alternative to Facebook to form online friendships and that's fine.

But in truth, until someone has emptied their bank account for a surgery that leaves them damaged or in chronic pain they really have little of value to contribute to those who have. Perhaps it is better for you to keep quiet as you said you've been doing until you have been through the experience yourself.

Anonymous
to SelectiveAiredaleTerrier #1493680

I don't enjoy drama. Olivia (Speakupnow2017 and other aliases on here) went on RealSelf stirring the pot and bragging that "Forty" was on here.

I came and looked and did not think it was her and defended my friend from the lies being written on here. She was bullied and Olivia sent PMs to women to scare them and harrassed people. That is what got her booted. Then she goes and gets a lawyer letter to try and muscle her way back on Realself trying to say she was censored.

Bull. Forty told me she was not posting here. That means one thing; Someone with an agenda did so, went to Realself and bragged about it and is now dragging my friends name through the mud. Not cool.

I had a consult with Dr. Harley, I can say whatever I want about my experience. No, I chose not to use Dr. Harley after my friend had issues.

Her lip issue healed, but her one eye does not close. Her brows are back to normal, but the one eye still does not close. I need my eyes done after 200 lbs of weight loss, like she did, but I need a brow lift and forehead lift and do not feel comfortable traveling 2,000 miles to a doctor who is does not have the occultosurgery fellowship. I waited for her one year pact to see what happened and that is my choice.

It makes no sense for me to have a facelift separately, it would cost more. I don't think anyone needs to be canonized, I think you should try putting yourself in other's shoes as fast as you condemn them for not doing the same. You are no better than what you are criticizing and if one of you faked her on here, you are downright {{Redacted}}. If my doctor hurt me as you say, I would not be on here, but in a lawyer's office.

Seems like this is a bit like shooting a BB into an elephant. From what I see on RS, Dr. Harley has not taken one bit of a hit. Instead of trying to take down his business, get a lawyer!

Get him to pay for your repairs and for your costs!! No one on here has done a scientific study to be able to report an "unusually high number of lip palsy," and no one on here knows the real deal poster is even forty for sure and it bragging on RS for us to come and see this. I know it isn't her and she is pretty upset that her name has been used. It will be reported, too.

Go ahead with your last words. Karl Marx (probably your hero) has a great quote about last words. Go look it up ;) Olivia is not maimed and not any worse off than before. Why are all of you having her do this when she was not harmed?

That is what I don't get. You say I must like drama? Seems you like to point a finger at exactly your own MO.

Rules for Radicals. You better watch out with some of these tactics or the both of you are going to have a problem legally.

Anonymous
to yourvictimmentalityisshowing #1494203

@yourvictimmentalityisshowing, speaking of multiple aliases how many have you created Forty? Am I sensing regret?

You shared so much information about your complications here it shifted focus away from people's surgical complaints to your bizarre support of Harley. I'm sure you saw it going down very differently in your mind when you posted. There is no spin you can put on it that will make sense to me. If someone does a good job they get a thumbs up, bad job gets a thumbs down.

I don't believe in participation trophies.You want to make it appear you are in the know more than everyone else, but in truth you don't know personally know Olivia or any of the other anonymous people posting on these internet boards. Virtual friends are not real friends, you know that right? You are gaslighting, using emotions (I had cancer) and "insider" information to manipulate, but not everyone here is going to drink your koolaid. Personally, I don't see anything earth shattering in your comments that isn't a simple regurgitation of what was said online, personal gossip between users and some creative hearsay.It a stretch of the imagination to believe RealSelf would compromise thier policies to share personal data on one user with another; but if by some rare coincidence you have a friend on the inside it is likely RealSelf would not want you broadcasting their breach of privacy all over the internet.

You would do well to follow your own legal advice in that respect.Which begs the question, why do you keep posting?

You took your reviews off RealSelf , no one said anything negative about it so what are you trying to prove by stirring your own pot again? If you are missing the virtual friendships and the support of the ladies who enjoy your brand, start your own blog!

Anonymous
to selectiveairedaleterrier #1496979

This is not 40 and she has been informed and she can handle it. I know a lot about it because we are friends.

Every person who responds to you is accused of being one person. This seems to be habitual. 40 absolutely regretted doing her eyes. She posted that on her reviews that she took down because she did not want drama or censorship from RS, which was happening to many on more than just facelifts.

She and I were also contacted by z4. She blocked her. Why? She did not want drama.

She is dealing with way bigger things right now. Again, you have accused several people of being the same person. I guess you can't take that more than one person would disagree. I think the more accurate fact is YOU are more than one person and that is why you accuse this way.

Do you personally know Olivia? I don't, you are right. I do know 40 and she told me this was not her but likely you or one of your aliases. She also told me she did not want to hear any more about it so feel free to take your last word.

Last words are for fools who have way too much to say. I changed the handle because it applied to you. I wasn't hiding a thing or trying to be someone else. Proceed with your tirade replies and innuendos.

Bottom line? You are throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks.

Anonymous
to TheREALdeal #1462809

Fortycankissit/Therealdeal:I was another person you tried to shame on RS when I wrote about my palsy, scars etc. It was you who basically screaming at me "YOU SIGNED THE PAPERS" basically telling me that Dr.

Harley was absolved from the botched work on my face. I'm perplexed why you have written this tirade trying to make Olivia the bad guy here because she was upset how she was treated by RealSelf and upset at the complications from her surgery from the Biltmore Lift.Yet here you are starting your comments by saying Dr. Harley damaged you and listing the ways. Interesting that you are more angry with Real Self than the doctor because he is nice and kind and has a heart.

Well so do dogs but I'm not going to give them a knife and say have at my face then oops a daisy I know you didn't mean to do this.You gave up a following of ladies? Yes, women who read your review and wanted to believe that this was the doctor for them.

You were so caught up in your so called following and the attention that it afforded.Bottom line though you were blocked from Real Self for calling the women who were not happy with their Biltmore Lift "heifers". That was the last straw.

Anonymous
to Another Botched Face #1465066

I am not sure if this is 40 like other replies are claiming but if it is i am glad to know what happened. Kind of thinking maybe?

since she had a big following. I think it is very admirable to tell the whole story. Whoever this person is obviously tried to wait out a complication and found it was permanent. That sucks.

I think i'll go for a deep plane and i have been hovering for a while.Thanks for sharing and sorry you have some trolls dogging you out. There are so many people who are brave behind the screen.

RS should not be letting doctors pay money for rank if that is what is going on??? Geez.

SelectiveAiredaleTerrier
to faceliftorbust #1472844

@Faceliftorbust - its only admirable to share the whole story when you don't shame other people for doing the same thing. There are other women who tried to warn people by sharing their bad results, nerve damage, pain, scarring, but were attacked and called heifers or worse by Forty and her followers.

Not too admirable. You are being a troll by criticizing someone for reminding Forty of her behavior against others who tried to speak out. Now, even with all of the damage she is reporting from the surgery, she is still putting herself on a pedestal as being a moral example by not filing a malpractice suit and telling other people they should follow her example because they knew the risks. Excuse me?

Everyone knows when they get behind the wheel of a car they can die in an accident, but does that mean the car companies aren't accountable for the fatalities caused by vehicle defects? If TheRealDeal wants to live with her damaged face and chalk it up to experience that's her call, but it is ridiculous to make it seem like everyone else who has been damaged should follow her example. She likes to boast of her large following, when instead she should be apologizing to all of the lambs she led to the slaughter with an inaccurate review. I wonder how many people's surgery decision was swayed with with her review of her doctor, while all the while she was obviously having far more complications than she was sharing online.

How many people chose that doctor because of her, and are now living with pain or a damaged faces? Shameful.

Anonymous
to SelectiveAiredaleTerrier #1483195

Olivia with one of her "many" aliases. You were the jerk to 40. She just waited for her result before making a final decision and was honest about her fears, issues.You saying she led people to slaughter is inflammatory considering you don't even know if this is her posting in the first place.I would hate to be the sugar daddy that had to put up with you.

Anonymous
to faceliftorbust #1483192

I think 40 was waiting for her one year before she made a final decision. From what I hear her lip has healed.Most doctors ask you wait a year before going on tirades and that is what she did and to be honest the two women here are a lot like Mary and Olivia who jumped all over 40.

I would have called you worse than heifers. You scared a lot of people who had great results for no reason and had no goal of anything but financial compensation. So quit hiding behind the "I am trying to warn people" lie.You were over filled in the first place and need to move on. Everyone on RS was commenting that 40 handled you slimy characters with grace.

I agree. I don't think this is her.

She messaged me that her lip has a full recovery. I think you make a bunch of users that are one user who is a nutbag who can't accept aging.

Anonymous
to holdup #1488602

Agreed on someone who can't accept aging. This person is on a warpath and that can't be helping.

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